#125: Should I Tell My Children About My Partner’s Past?

00:01Should I tell my children about my partner's past? Welcome to the Real Talk Recovery podcast with the Therapy Brothers. We're brothers. We're therapists, and we know recovery. Bring your stories, your questions, your success. Assesses with real recovery.00:33All right, thanks, Tyler. This is going to be a good episode, I think, with some really good questions. So questions that go beyond the one that you just asked. So I'm excited to get into it.00:47But before we do, I just want to say something. It's an eventful week, Brandon. It's been an eventful week. And we released our episode on my perspective on the betrayed, the addicted and the expert. And I just want to say I've gotten so much feedback from people, both positive and negative, but far more positive than anything. And the reviews that we got on our podcast, I think there's three reviews there.01:19I'm not going to read any of them, but they really mean a lot. They mean a lot to me. I just really appreciate that feedback to kind of validate that what we did was the right thing. And to hear that it did bring some closure to some open wounds from our audience was really good to hear that.01:45So I appreciate people actually taking the time and the energy and the effort to give that feedback and let us know that they were grateful for that episode. So thank you for that. Yeah. We appreciate all of the feedback that we get. And it came in lots of different forms this week, and every single piece of it was valuable to us. So thank you to the audience who listens and who shares and shares enough to give us that feedback. We really do appreciate it. Yeah.02:15Okay, let's move into the episode. So we have Lucy here with us, and Lucy has quite a story, and you can share with us as much as you want to. You can dig into it as far as you want, but then hopefully get to some questions where Tyler and I can help you sort through how to navigate and move forward from here. So, Lucy, take it away and just fill us in on what's going on.02:43Okay, I'll start with I had discovered my husband had reconnected with an old girlfriend first girlfriend that he had only dated for six months when he was a teenager, young adult. And I thought that was basically it. I discovered that three weeks before he passed. How did you discover that?03:12Did you catch him or did he? Well, no. What happened was my husband, he had cancer. And basically he took care of a lot of our finances and any kind of correspondence that you would have, business wise. But he had gotten too sick. So I took it over. And one evening, I don't know, I was just sitting at the computer checking things, checking his emails.03:44He couldn't even check his emails any longer. And I stumbled uponcorrespondence that he had with this woman. And I had a few little things that I had found a few years earlier that were connected to this woman whom I had knowledge of when I started dating him many years ago, never felt jealous of her, never felt threatened by her.04:18And then I confronted him on that. It was like maybe five years before I stumbled upon this correspondence that he had with her. And I asked him about it, and all his answers added up in my mind. And we were going through big events, life events with our children, weddings, grandchildren and such, being born. So I just gave it a pass.04:45His excuses seemed reasonable to me, and I let it go with that time. But when I found this correspondence three weeks before he passed, I knew that those little voices in my head from years ago that he had lied to me. And so he's literally on his deathbed. And I read the letter and he's shaking his head, asking me to please don't read it.05:12And I was like, no, I can't, but that was it. I just let him know at that moment that I had found it and wasn't going to let him give me an excuse. He didn't have the energy, really, at that point with that van he passes three weeks later, and my kids were close to their father, and I just didn't have it in me to then tell them that at that time.05:45But since he's passed away and now that I've had to continue on with all our legal matters and I go looking for things that I need, I stumble upon other things, not just with this woman. My husband was struggling with his sexuality. I found out that he had a troubled childhood that I had no idea of.06:18He had reached out to a counselor at some point in South America, and I believe he did this so that nobody in the community would know. We're older, and it was before people were coming out. Now people can come out, whatever their sexuality is today more openly. And 40 years ago, people weren't doing that.06:48My husband also, too, was a CEO, and he was known in communities because of his job. And I don't think he wanted anybody to know. So he reaches out to a counselor in South America, and it's all through the computer and the Internet. And so the therapist would ask questions and he would respond. And so I got to read that that was something else I stumbled upon.07:17And he never confided in me that he had been sexually abused as a child by a teacher and somebody in the community that he had lived in. His parents divorced. And he says in this session with the therapist that he thought the teacher was just being kind and caring.07:51And then it took him until his 50s to realize that that wasn't the case. He had taken advantage of them. So he had it. His father beat him. He was sexually abused as a child. He was young. He was eleven years old when the teacher had started this relationship with him, if you want to call it that.08:20There's a lot I could keep going on. He had a lot of trauma in his life. He was an only child. His parents were both immigrants. They had met in England and married and came to the States. And then he was born a year later, only child.08:42I honestly thought a lot of how he acted was because he had immigrantparents and he was an only child and no extended family in this country. And I just thought his quietness introvertedness, it could still be a lot of that.09:06But now I wonder how much of it was because of all the traumas in his life. His mother when he was only 23, he and his mother lived in a home, and he had come back home to live for a while because he had decided to go back to school and there was a house fire and she died in that.09:31And unfortunately, even at that time, people didn't go to therapist or talk to therapist, and nobody suggested to him, you might want to go talk to somebody. Lucy, I want to ask you, what was your relationship like? What was your marriage like?09:52Yeah, we were really in sync with each other with a lot of things, like projects, whether it was a house project or something fun. We like to ski and hike, and we would do it together. He liked it when I traveled with him.10:18He was home for all the birthdays and the holidays, and he didn't miss a beat that way. But yet he had this secret life that he was probably conducted at night or obviously when he traveled. I now see in hindsight, there was patterns.10:43We'd get along really well, and then things would get a little like I'd sense things or I wasn't too happy with how kind of the flow of things were going. And I would start getting upset about that. And I see now we would fight and then things will settle down. So there was a pattern.11:07And I think if he sensed that I was picking up on anything, he started to he would regroup. Right. Because he didn't want me to know any of this. Lucy, as you uncover stuff and as you've kind of gone through this, what are your feelings like now toward him, and where are you at with that? Yeah, my mind and my heart don't match.11:41Sometimes I'm very angry and I feel like I question, was he using me to keep his identity covered up? Did he really love me? Was he fearful of even losing his family because he didn't once both his parents had passed before we got married, and he had, like I said, no siblings or extended family here in this country.12:13But all this had been found out and I had left him that he would have lost his wife. I can't say his children, that would have been their decision. But he even gained my family love him, meaning my siblings and my parents. So he would have lost all that. So I'm not clear and I struggle with that.12:45Did he really love me or did he just stay with me because the loss would have been too great, more past, even me. He would sign tell me, I have always loved you. He would say that my birthday was coming up. Let me backtrack. The last weekend, my children came to see their father.13:11Before he passed, he asked them to get a birthday card for me because he was able to remember that at that point that my birthday was coming up, one of my kids went out and got the card, and then the other child was helping fill in. Do you want me to put with what they said is, do you want me to put love? And then my name just Love Lucy.13:41And he said, no, I want you to put, I have always loved you. And then he did sign it the best he could. That's where I struggle. There's so much the otherthing with that girlfriend was I had noticed anything he was doing with her. It was immature in a lot of ways.14:13Like teenage with gift, not the kind of gift you would give a 60 year old woman. It just seemed like it was going back to when they were about 18. And he was gifting me at the same time. And anything that he was doing with me was appropriate for what you would do in our age.14:41Practice. Interesting. Yeah. So I struggle with all of that. How long has he been dead for? Actually, this week it's three years. Three years. Okay, so you've been finding out kind of all of these details that you didn't know and kind of unraveled since his death.15:12For about three years. Correct. I can only imagine what it would be like to be sifting through such a crazy mix of emotions between the grieving process of losing a loved one already. And then you stack on top of that, all of this unknown stuff. I imagine that your process has been quite a roller coaster ride.15:42Yeah. And he's not here for me to ask questions to get mad at. Right. It's difficult. I mean, I don't know what would have happened to our relationship had he been healthy. And I found out all this. I do know that I never would have stayed with him if he didn't agree to some kind of counseling or therapy.16:17There's no way with the amount that I have found. But when you're with somebody for 40 years and you have a family, I don't know what you do with that at that point because on the surface. He didn't beat me. He was a good provider.16:46Lucy, how many kids do you have? Two. And you say that their relationship with him was pretty good? Yes. Yeah. I imagine now that he's gone, their view of him is really good. When somebody dies, all the good memories oftentimes stay and they become an immortal being.17:13Right? Right. And that's what I'm struggling with, because if I say anything to them at this point, it's just going to blow them away like it did me, I think. But at the same time, sometimes when they're in that mode, if something said in front of me, it's a trigger for me.17:42Of course, it's a huge trigger for me. And that's where it's like, do I tell them so their understanding of that, or do I just keep getting triggered? And Lucy, that right there. Now, your situation is unique, but that right there is classic betrayal trauma, where the betrayed partner is asked to hold so much to protect the betrayer.18:14And it's the most unfair thing ever, where the hurt and the pain and the angers there. But it's also like, now I'm the one that's supposed to protect you. And then, like Tyler was saying, add on that the grief from him passing away on top of it is even probably more pressure to hold that image of their dad for them. That is a tough position to be in.18:46But I do think there's ways to move forward. There's ways to navigate this so it doesn't continue to get you stuck or destroy you or make you feel confused. I really like what you said. My mind and my heart don't match up. I think you can do some work to get them more matched up. So, Tyler, any thoughts? Yeah, I've got a couple of thoughts and maybe a couple ofquestions as well.19:14The first thought is that as we're talking about this, this is an interesting discussion to have because Brandon, from the outside, we can look at this and okay, Lucy's in the midst of betrayal, trauma, and she's also in the midst of the grieving process. And the grieving process is a process that will take some time that will include anger and bargaining and depression and sadness. And eventually there'll be more and more acceptance of the reality of not just the loss of a loved one, but also the reality of the situation as it is in the midst of it.19:49When you're in the thick of it like you are, Lucy, it's hard to see the force for the trees. It's hard to see the bigger picture. So one day you might be really triggered into anger, and one day you might be triggered into like, well, I don't want my kids to have a different thought about their dad. And it's this battle that's going on.20:04But if we could pull out and look at it from 30,000ft and see the end result, which is that eventually you're going to come more and more to a place of an acceptance of things as they are, which means all of it, which means that you actually had a pretty good husband who also had secrets, who happened to be a really good dad, who also didn't tell the whole story, who is also a wounded child growing up and who never got the help that he really needed.20:34All of that stuff is going to all be true as you get through the grieving process. The acceptance of all of that is what's going to be part of the pathway to your freedom and liberation. You're not there yet, but in asking whether or not you should share with your kids, I think sometimes keeping the big picture in mind can help in that process of trying to figure it out.21:02Tyler, I want to take what you just said, and I want to kind of throw it back at Lucy. So your husband, we could look at him one of two ways. We could look at him as a resilient human being who made amazing things happen in his life despite major trauma. And I mean, as you were going on talking about his past, he had been through a lot, and he still managed to create some kind of love and connection with you.21:35He still managed to have rapport and connection and love with his children. Sounds like he was really productive in his career. Like, wow, what an amazingly resilient, strong human being. We could look at them that way, right? Right. On the other hand, we could look at them as what a monster. What a monster who lied and deceived and hurt you for years and years and years and almost got away with it.22:08And how dare he? And so through the eyes of compassion and Tyler's kind of saying 30,000 foot view, we can look at him and say, wow, look at him. He's amazingly resilient. But you were married to him, Lucy, and the cheating and the lies directly affected the Fidelity of your marriage, whether or not you knew about it for 40 years or not.22:35And that still hurts, right? I want to ask you, is he a monster or is he a resilient human being who did amazing things despite his trauma? Both. It's both in my head, because when I started uncovering a lot, especially the things of his childhood, I wanted to cry for that little boy.23:01And if I had known, like, I wish I beat myself up, that I didn't know and thathe didn't feel safe to come to me and tell me all that I blame myself for that. And yet I don't know if I should. I don't know why he didn't feel safe with that, but he didn't.23:33Hang on. I got to stop you there. I want you to go there for a second, okay? That might have had nothing to do with you. In fact, I would guess that it didn't. I mean, that little boy getting molested and going through so much that he went through what's?23:57One way to protect yourself from the shame around the trauma? You just internalize it and you hide it, right? Yeah. And so you as a partner, how safe you are or not. It does affect whether or not he can process things with you or not. But he had gotten really good at stuff in it and hiding it. Right. The truth is that he took most of his life to finally have the courage to reach out to somebody in a different country, across the world to talk about it.24:31And it wasn't because that person across the world just happened to be the ultimate person they could trust. Right. It happened to be because it felt distant enough that I can't get hurt by anybody if they know what Brandon is getting at, Lucy, is that we don't know all the reasons why. And maybe there were some things to look at, but the truth is that it was likely a little boy who learned how to keep secrets for self preservation, who wouldn't have trusted anybody who was close enough to him to actually see the vulnerability.25:02And so that wasn't your fault, right? Yeah, I do believe that. That goes through my head, too. It wouldn't have mattered whoever he connected with beyond me as his spouse, meaning that exgirlfriend, he was lying to them, too. I'm sure he didn't tell them there was nobody that he connected with that he felt safer with because he didn't want anyone to know that side of him.25:40Tyler and I, we treat sex addiction, right. The biggest part of treating sex addiction is helping people go from darkness to light. We think that that's about getting honest with your spouse so that you can clean up the marriage. But it's about so much more than that. It's about healing.26:04It's about those shackles of shame go away when somebody steps into that vulnerability in that light. And it's about healing. And your husband didn't fully heal. Recovery was never there for him. It sounds like he wanted it. He desired it, but he didn't heal. Why am I saying this?26:34He did kind of some extreme things, getting a counselor in South America, but he did what most people try to do to deal with the pain. And if you would have told me his past, just his trauma and the things he'd been through, being an only child and all the things you just said without telling me what he did in your marriage, I probably would have said, my guess is some things are happening in your marriage that you don't know about.27:01My guess is there's some compulsive behaviors. It's interesting when you bring up the way he connected with this ex girlfriend. That little boy inside there was just screaming and crying and trying to get needs met in all kinds of ways. And so why do I say all this? Basically, I'm saying all this to say this has nothing to do with you.27:29And on his deathbed, what he said to you is I have always loved you. And in a way, what I'm hearing him say is this is not your fault. This wasn't aboutyou and he wanted you to know that you were his person. But this little boy is behind the scenes just wreaking havoc, right? Yeah. Does that make sense? It makes sense.27:57The only thing that, well, if we would fight, not if we when we're not married, as long as I guess that goes back to the little boy thing, he was super sensitive about that.28:24I have three siblings, very close in age, and we would fight, say things and then five minutes later be playing with each other and forget we even had a fight. I'm still close to my siblings, but I realized one day after many years of marriage, it might have been 1520 years of marriage. At that point, he internalized all of that.28:50And I made that point to him. I said you didn't grow up with siblings. And I did. And so I realize now that if I say something to you, you're hanging on to every word where when I grew up and we have an argument or I'd have an argument with my siblings, we would move past it. And so I was still fighting that way. And he didn't understand fighting because he didn't have anybody to fight with as a child.29:24So I wonder, did he resent me for that even? Was he hanging on or does that connect to what you're saying about he had so much unresolved as a child? I would say it's much deeper. You're saying maybe he didn't have siblings so he didn't learn how to have that thick skin. But I would say it's deeper. I would say he didn't have real recovery.29:50So he didn't know that he was lovable as he was with all of his scars and wounds. He didn't know that he was man enough for you. And that wasn't about him not being able to handle a tough conversation. That was about him not knowing who he actually was. That's what Brennan is getting at here, is that it's not about not having siblings. It's about having a lack of shame resiliency.30:18And if we were to take that a step further, I think the answer of whether or not you share with your kids, as most answers are, it depends. But I want you to think of a couple of concepts here. First thing I'd ask you is that your husband, with all of his secrets and with all of his strengths, was he worthy of being loved?30:46Yes, I do believe that. I mean, I still love him. I love him. I love him. Of course you do. And the truth is that with all of his flaws, he was still a human being. And there's a tragic story that goes along with it that's being unfolded now. And it's sad that it's now earlier because it's all about lost and wasted time. But that man was worthy of love because he's a human being, the same way that you're worthy of love with all of your struggles and flaws, the same way that I am.31:18And one thought that I'm having is what would be wrong. What's wrong with allowing someone to be lovable with their whole story instead of with just the doctored up story? We all have our stories, right? I'm in recovery myself, Lucy.31:43I have on film me telling my story, and my kids will watch that at some point, whether it's after I'm gone or before that. But they need to know the whole story. They deserve to know the whole story because it's part of what makes me me. And so I challenge you to think about whether or notyou disclose to your kids. Ask yourself some questions. Am I telling my kids because I'm angry and vindictive and I want to slander my husband?32:14The answer is then you probably shouldn't tell them. But Lacey, you don't feel that way. What Tyler just said, like your energy is not coming across. I want to gouge the knife in to him. Yeah. Am I telling my kids because I have a really hard time right now and listen to what Brandon said earlier. We're in the process of stepping out of the dark and into the light. Are my kids a safe place to actually step out of the dark?32:46Because the truth is that that could be an opportunity for connection with your children and not just an opportunity at hurting their father. It depends on your relationship with your children. And I'd take it one step further. And I can only say for myself and Brandon might have a different opinion on this, but if I was in the same shoes, I would want for my wife to be able to share the whole story because of what I believe about stepping into the light and the power that it has.33:16Tyler, if you were the child, would you want mom to tell you these things about dad? It would suck, but I'd want to know. I would want the reality. Brandon, I'll tell you a quick story on this. Mom and dad got to get mad at me for this a little bit because I know they're our favorite listeners, but we actually had what my parents, we call the living history record. We actually filmed my parents talking about their whole life story on film a few years ago.33:49And they shared some really amazing things that I'd never heard before. And sorry, I'm getting emotional. And I was the only one in the room who was able to witness them tell those stories as it was being filmed. And I can tell you that I felt such a deep sense of love and appreciation and admiration for my parents as I listened to those stories. And the very next day, the person who filmed made a private YouTube page with my parents stories.34:21And he was going to give passwords to all of the children so that we could go and watch those stories. And mom and dad called in the very next day and said, don't get out of the password. We're not ready yet for that story to be told. We're not ready for those things to be shared with our kids. But when we die, we want them to be able to hear those things. And I think that there's some merit to that, that you have to be ready when you're ready to share. But what my parents offered me that day and what they're going to offer Brandon and all the rest of my siblings eventually is the gift of their story.34:56And it is a gift, even though it's not pretty. Yeah. And it allows for a connection to the humanity that we all have. And so I hope that makes sense. Yeah. We're running low on time, Lucy, and I want to say it's fascinating to me generational trauma.35:24I can meet with somebody and they talk about how great grandpa was a child molester, and that was passed down into family patterns and the ripple effects of that trauma. And so now here I am meeting with this person who has all kinds of chaos going on in their life because the secrecy and the trauma was never dealt with three generations ago.35:53I think you really got to gauge the maturity level of your children, the readiness that they have to hear things and to step into pain, but they willexperience trauma whether or not you tell them these things or not.36:14And you can protect them by hiding certain things, but you can also hurt them by hiding certain things and to give them the opportunity. I really like Tyler's answer. I would want to know, but that would suck. To give them the opportunity to learn and to grow through that pain like you are could be a good thing for them. But that's hard.36:43I think that you're in a really tough position. So I just really want to applaud you for I hate that we have to end this episode so soon. I would love to process this even further and dig in further, but I really want to applaud you for coming on and being vulnerable and sharing this story. Lucy, before you go, I got to ask you, are you doing your own work? Are you in therapy? Was yes.37:13Okay. It's coming to an end. My insurance has changed. And believe it or not, the new insurance that I'll get as an individual counseling is not included. So I'll be looking into other alternatives to what I can do, because obviously, there's a lot to work on. Your healing from betrayal, trauma, doesn't just go away because your husband's gone like, oh, he's gone.37:44So now I don't have to heal from betrayal trauma. No, in fact, you have some complex betrayal trauma that really needs to be looked at and for you to just process and have someone to just talk openly with about where you're at is so important. Yeah, I'd encourage you. I didn't share it with any friends or family because he was loved by everybody and I was protecting him.38:14Sure. Yeah. Lucy, I can already hear the process happening where you're moving through your grief and you're making peace with some of these puzzle pieces that are coming together. It's going to be a process, it's going to be a wrestle. But I hear in your heart that you're moving in the right direction where you're going to find some peace and some success here. I want to say I'm really grateful that you are willing to come on and share yourself here in the way that you did today and I actually think it'll be helpful for you.38:46So thank you. Okay. Well, thank you. All right. We'd love to have you back on, Lucy. Maybe we'll follow up with you in a little bit and just kind of see where you're at. You guys, if you've enjoyed this episode, then please feel free to share it and we love your reviews. Have a wonderful day. We'll see you later. Thanks, guys.